Jobs and Orders

[lou]

I talked about the general idea behind the job system in another topic, but I wanted to outline what's to be expected in the upcoming Alpha Demo as well as where the game is currently at, and possibly where it's headed.

As of right now there are ten (10) Basic Jobs, which I consider to be the starting point for units. These only count generic Jobs, by the way, unique character will mostly have their own Jobs.

Some games in the genre like to start with 2 or 3 Classes/Jobs that fill the roles of Fighter/Caster and sometimes Rogue. While I decided on ten (10), I may still create a lower tier made up of less.

Orders

Anyway, right now we have ten (10) Jobs and each of these belongs to a different Order. An Order, which is similar to a Guild, is where the secrets of the trade are taught, and like-minded individuals gather to learn and advance their skills specific to the Job the currently have.

I was originally going to design it so that every Job had it's own Order, a 1:1 relationship. This would create a lot of Orders...

So I am thinking I have about 10-12 ideas for base archetypes of Jobs, each would cover a specific theme, and I will use those Orders to house all of the Jobs that fit said theme. It might be easier to see a visual depiction than for me to explain it. The list is bookended by yet to be revealed Jobs/Themes that are still subject to change as is everything.

Thematic Orders

• Order of ?????? - ??????
  • ??????
• Order of Roncus - Weapons
  • Warrior
• Order of Makai - Melee
  • Fighter
• Order of Soter - Defense
  • Defender
• Order of Astrea - Honor
  • Page
• Order of Erebos - Stealth
  • Rogue
• Order of Atomus - Ranged
  • Scout
• Order of Panacea - Spirit
  • Acolyte
• Order of Mnemos - Magick
  • Scribe
• Order of Hermet - Science
  • Chemist
• Order of Minerva - Knowledge
  • Scholar
• Order of ?????? - ??????
  • ??????

Advanced Jobs and Orders

So with that being laid out, let's say a more advanced Job existed called a Lancer. Lancer being a slightly improved Warrior whose has special skills when it comes to Polearms. The Lancer would also be in the Order of Roncus and look like so.

• Order of Roncus
  • Warrior
  • Lancer

Expanding on the idea of Orders, I was also thinking of ways to combined traits of two Orders into their own "hybrid" section to cover various hybrid Jobs.

For example, let's look at the Spellblade Job. It combined traits of weapon mastery and physical combat with that of magick. A mixture of traits from the Order of Roncus and the Order of Mnemos. Which Order does Spellblade belong to? It could be the Order of Roncus: Sect of Mnemos? Or the Order of Roncus-Mnemos?

To give the Orders any meaning at all, there shouldn't be one for every Job, then I might as well call the "jobs" Orders and cut out the middle-man. So this is something I am still working out, but wished to outline the basic idea.

Note: Not all Orders are titled in the manner of "Order of ____". While it is tradition to name them as such, some of the less mainstream ones may have different names. For example, one of the unrecognized Orders calls itself the Cult of Zelus and they happen to train a Job called a Zealot.
 
 
 

[dudleyserious]

I'm new to the board, but I have to say, I love this idea. A little extra personality and a lot of lore opportunities arise out of it. Plus, this kind of framework can help steer the ship when developing jobs and the like. Magic the Gathering (the card game) has something similar with its "color identities"-- that black does something different than green, and on and on. They expanded on that with multicolor guilds for various sets-- much like what you're mulling over here-- and then further by having three color guilds. I love the idea of values and cultures coming along with these guilds that are informed by the capabilities that the "color identities" that comprise them have. So red and black, called rakdos, are chaotic and sadistic, combining the traits of red and black. I think you're pulling something similar off here.

[lou]

That's very interesting dudleyserious! It's been along time since I've been around MTG, but I do remember the different color systems, I didn't know they started combining them, and that sounds awesome!

When I started out I just had a list of basic jobs, pretty generic etc. I then went back and started over by creating the history of the world, regional/cultural developments and other lore. Once I set this up I was able to better decide which Jobs would be available by basing it on the lore.
The individuals that founded the guild, those that helped it grow, and so on allowed me to develop Jobs and abilities that have more of a reason for existing rather than Warrior has a Melee Bash ability because it's a Warrior.

I'm sure some of my ideas will have been done before, but hopefully I can create some systems that stand out on their own and sort of "make sense" in the big picture.

Anyway, thanks so much for joining and I really appreciate your insight!

[Lurch91]

Commenting on your example of the spellblade job and how it would fit into an order, Why not have the spellblade fit into either order, with pros and cons depending on which order they belong to. A Roncus spellblade having stats and skills more geared toward melee with a little magic included, whereas a spellblade of Mnemos being more magical with a little more melee capability than your average mage. Just a thought.

[lou]

Commenting on your example of the spellblade job and how it would fit into an order, Why not have the spellblade fit into either order, with pros and cons depending on which order they belong to. A Roncus spellblade having stats and skills more geared toward melee with a little magic included, whereas a spellblade of Mnemos being more magical with a little more melee capability than your average mage. Just a thought.

 

I like that idea a lot!!

The Job/Order situation is probably the part I have been having the most trouble with as it's difficult to convey exactly how I want it to work.

I had two takes on it originally, one would be Orders would have anywhere from 1 to X Jobs and would essentially consist of a Line of Jobs, succession-wise.
This would allow jobs that essentially replace weaker ones while still giving them a unique identity.

Example: Take One

Basic Order 1 would include: Squire->Page->Knight
Advanced Order 1 would include: Holy Knight, Divine Knight
Advanced Order 2 would include: Dark Knight, Death Knight
​​​​​​​
So above we see 10 Jobs, essentially all Knights. The first Order would handle basic skills and cover the three "ranks" of Knighthood. Abilities and Passives would be handed out via the Order and would become available as one advanced from Squire to Page and from Page to Knight.

Upon becoming a Knight, the unit may have a choice of different advanced orders that focus on a specialty. In this case it's Dark vs Light. 
Now it's important to note that Holy Knight and Divine Knight are essentially on the same "tier" with different specifics, perhaps one focuses more on being a healing tank and the other an offensive spell casting tank. Advanced Order 2 would handle the "dark" versions of the Knight line.

This system has it's pros and cons, but the idea was to have a large amount of Jobs with their lore being central to both the story and back story. It also allows for 7 Jobs to sort of fit into 3, if that makes sense, reducing the unique spritesheets required. Basically Squire would be barebones, Page would add some paper-doll style overlays, and Knight would finish it off with the completed product.
The other variations of advanced Knights might have unique sprites or might be palette swaps. This will allow me to put dozens of Jobs into the game, with the main goal being acquiring their 1-3 Abilities/Passives.
Basically a focus on the Abilities/Passives and building a set of 4 of each that you want for the end result, while still getting to play as the various Job roles.

--

The second take I had is similar to what you have stated, while it would change the name of the Job, it would basically be a system where you a more Physical Spellblade vs a more Magickal Spellblade.

 

[Doug]

I don't know why, but I love classes/jobs that can do almost anything they want, even if they're weak. I played FFT as Mime and RO as Super Novice; so, would be really cool if you make a job like that, even if you don't, I am sure your game will be awesome!

Oh, and I have a fun fact that I didn't post anywhere else, my savefile in FFT got corrupted on my memory card, I could play with ALL characters in the game (literally anyone), the elder ones always started the battle fainted, with a timer on their head started at 3. It was like 10+ years ago? so I don't remember how I did it.